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Great posters a chara. Every time I see that Brit fool saying that Republicans are traitors to the island of Ireland I don't whether to laugh of be sick. Of course, Marty has never explained to us how its possible to be a traitor to an inanimate object like an island...

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One thing that comes across from that video is that Gerry Kelly is an old man telling young men not to do what he did when he was a young man. This has been the pass time of old men since the dawn of time...

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Physically and mentally it is a fact that our mood mellows and temperment relaxs with time and age, so I suppose Kellys more laid back current attitude and indifference to British rule can partly be put down to age I suppose.

 

But his developing middle age crankiness gives him no right to curse and condemn young men who lash out at grossly unjust imperialism, as a young man he with gusto bombed with ease British targets of prominence and rightly so.

 

There is a wisdom with age yes, but the fireyness of youth must not be underestimated either

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Guest Felix Rourke

Cunningham or Murphy? does he use both names?

 

Also, was the debate last Saturday filmed?

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Guest Felix Rourke

Murphy is his stage name a chara.

Also, no, I don't think the debate was filmed.

 

Oh right - We had him speak at a Republican Congress meeting before xmas and wrote on the leaflets that Ciaran Murphy of RNU would be speaking........ doh!

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When I was in Ogra Sinn Fein many moons ago, the Dublin Shinner leadership set up a meeting between young members who were 'disenchanted' and a tough hardline ex-POW to set us right, that being Flash McVeigh.

 

Ill never forget my conversation with him, him telling me Gerry Adams is all about 'the army' and secretly the PIRA was waiting in the wings to take over the country, how the splinter groups as he put it were riddled with touts and side shows.

I must say he was very convincing especially with his tough guy IRA man appreance.

 

Now 11 years later its interesting to see this man in an Armani suit preaching scorn of republicanism and advocating British rule as a means to an end.

 

Which has me thinking 11 years ago was he genuine in what he told us and over past decade has he gradually sold out(he was pronably selling out long before that, or did he know 11 years ago what was to come and was he lying through his teeth?

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Guest Felix Rourke

When I was in Ogra Sinn Fein many moons ago, the Dublin Shinner leadership set up a meeting between young members who were 'disenchanted' and a tough hardline ex-POW to set us right, that being Flash McVeigh.

 

Ill never forget my conversation with him, him telling me Gerry Adams is all about 'the army' and secretly the PIRA was waiting in the wings to take over the country, how the splinter groups as he put it were riddled with touts and side shows.

I must say he was very convincing especially with his tough guy IRA man appreance.

 

Now 11 years later its interesting to see this man in an Armani suit preaching scorn of republicanism and advocating British rule as a means to an end.

 

Which has me thinking 11 years ago was he genuine in what he told us and over past decade has he gradually sold out(he was pronably selling out long before that, or did he know 11 years ago what was to come and was he lying through his teeth?

 

I don't think the Machiavellian argument really stands up regarding most the Shinners to be frank. This notion from the inception of the PRM there were plots being hatched by devious figures to bring a movement so far and then capitulate to ruling-class politics.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head with age there. That and the fact of just there being a sort of downward spiral whereby the more exposed to Brits and ruling-class politics, the more they imitate them. It's a drawn out process.

 

One of the maddest example of this sort of drift is the Sticks and the likes of Gilmore. I don't think he was sitting in college in TCD or wherever he was, plotting that the Officials would go through this split/crime/counter-revolutionary/social-democratic/bourgeois/and now finally right-wing bourgeois transition.

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Certainly, people get tired with age. But, I don't think the Republican Movement ever had a very clear or well thought out ideology - and that includes the Sticks. It was more or less bourgeois ideology, with socialist bells on it, from the start. And ideology that is weak from the start will not stand up to the rigors of war. It is all the more difficult when your ideology is, at its foundation, the same ideology as the enemy has, i.e. bourgeois republicanism. And just because the UK is a monarchy, is not to say that its ideology is not bourgeois republicanism. In 1918, Sinn Féin's demand was to be allowed to take over the reigns of the British economic and political infrastructure in Ireland. There was no great desire to change that infrastructure in any meaningful way. From the free state war, up until the 1960s, the RM tried to park the whole question of economics. And we still get Republicans with this attitude - sure we'll sort all that stuff out - when the Brits are gone. Even the move towards socialism in the 1960s was not given a solid Marxist foundation. That being the case, we can hardly be surprised when Adams, Gilmore et al, slip into bourgeois politics, like hands into gloves.

 

The tragedy in Ireland was that Sinn Féin and the IRA took on the task that should have been the task of the Communist Party and a Red Army \ Peoples Army. And, as we see in the TG4 film on the Soviets, that is not such an extravagant idea. It could easily have happened, as in 1918, there was a huge and desperate Rural Proletariat in Ireland. It is no accident that the first item on the free states agenda was to exile this highly dangerous rural proletariat. And that it did with genocidal efficency, during the 1920s, 30s and 40s.

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